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Slumrat Rising Vol. 5 Chap. 95 Running From The Deep

🕑 Added 2024-07-19 16:00:03 +0000 UTC

Comments

_mori

Sahariel seems like a bitch. So the consequence of people not being ‘strong enough’ to save themselves is to punish them by preventing them from ever growing strong enough?

Addicted_Reader

Transhumanism is great. I think the biggest thing that Western Capitalist societies can do to advance it is deregulate transhumanist device testing to an “informed consent + obvious idiocy” model. If someone willingly volunteers to have something totally unknown tested on them, they have the right as long as they truly know things can go really fucking wrong. As soon as humans no longer absolutely require huge amounts of medical care and food to survive, most problems in the world vanish.

ioajfidsnmfomds77

Addicted, I agree with your argument, specifically the premise that modern liberal capitalism is the best we have ever been able to do with that we have but that raises a question. Specifically that if this *gestures broadly at the suffering* is the best we can do with the building blocks we have ie humans then we are obligated to build/become better. What are your thoughts on Transhumanism? There are obviously significant risks in such a proposition ranging from even defining what being better is to implementation and the control that would give the modifying party. I'm not to particular about the means be they gene modification or a Neuralink-esque program or whatever. I think many people probably including Kain and BaconWarGod do not want to accept gradual moderate reform as the best we can possibly do to combat the suffering. I guess I am curious on your thoughts on how things can be made better.

Addicted_Reader

I’m sure there is a better system than modern liberal capitalism. Probably some sort of non-libertarian techno-utopia. I have not seen any explanation for such a system or means of getting there. I’m not sure that “sweatshop” workers actually hate capitalism. You know that sweatshops are usually much better labor systems than what’s available otherwise in developing economies. That’s why support for reform in developing countries is usually quite broad, subject to reasonable concerns about neocolonialism and specific industries like farming being outcompeted by multinationals. There’s a reason both China and India prospered immensely once they deregulated out of Maoism and the License Raj. I don’t think that anyone has implemented a stateless classless society from the down down or bottom up. That’s because it’s impossible to do such a thing. Every successful popular communist revolution has failed in the transition phase. Whether or not a stateless classless society would be good is a moot point, since every attempt seems to become Communist China at best and Pol Pot at worst. I appreciate that you are a socialist democrat, and I respect your position. I just doubt that your policies would materially benefit the working class.

Kain

Do you know how long capitalism has been around? At longest on a wide enough scale to notice 700 years compare that to the hundreds of thousands of years of human history and the minimum ten thousand years of, comparatively large scale, human societies and cultures but naw I’m sure this little system is the best possible and we can only ever iterate on it and mitigate its damages, wouldn’t want anyone currently comfortable to get their hair tussled in a large scale change after all. And I’m a GD reformist I’m like a dem soc at most, currently just because I think it’s more practical, you’ve just annoyed me to the point I’m talking like an asshole larper revolutionary type.

Kain

1 you missed the last part it’s kinda important “so long as you were comfortable” you would be a monarchist I have little doubt if you were a peasant that you would hate the system that put you there just like ya know child slaves in sweat shops that made components for the phones or computers we’re both using hate the system that created their positions in society. 2 to the point of “haven’t come up with one” the other alternative is that we have yet to implement it at scale. If you think any let’s say stereotypical “communist” nations ever actually made an attempt at communism from the top down, which is pretty hilarious and nearly oxymoronic to begin with, there’s no point in further discussion about real world matters cause you live in a world as fictional as this novel.

Addicted_Reader

I have no demand for “the best” civilization. Only one better than what we have now. Which, it seems you admit, no one has been able to come up with on a systemwide scale. So we can only Tinker with what we have to make it better. If you have a better idea, let me know, everyone’s constantly looking for one, and they have yet to find it. I do lay the bad things companies do at their feet. All the slavery, exploitation, murder, damage to the planet, lies to the public, unethical experiments, and wars incited. If their owners broke either the laws of their nations or the natural criminal law that applies when the state has been subverted, then they should be held accountable. But I don’t pretend that the answer to my problems is to replace many indifferent evils with one truly monstrous one. You say that I would have supported a monarchist regime. I doubt it, because had I been born in 17th century France, I would likely have been a starving peasant doomed to live a pathetic life or die in one of Louis’ idiotic wars. I would probably have no conception of an alternative, but I would certainly suffer.

Kain

“Come up with an entire socioeconomic system and give me an example of a utopia” These are you’re standards for a random commentor weird AF you don’t hold the people in power in our society and instead just accept the shit rolling down hill, though you’re not at the bottom of that hill are you. Now that’s not a crime I’m not either or I wouldn’t have money to pledge on patrion if I was. It’s just funny you’re just like the fairy and I don’t think you realize it “ praise Starbright for all the innovations and jobs he’s created but don’t you dare put any of the dead toddlers at his feet those were just the cost of doing business” No shit we haven’t implemented a perfect civilization, I still don’t know what metric you’re using to determine that this is “the best” but I don’t really care it doesn’t matter. “The best we’ve done so far” doesn’t make it the best possible. End of history BS I’d bet you’d be a monarchist if you were borne under a king and you’d be a devote follower if you were borne into a theocracy, so long as you were comfortable of course.

Pi

Trying to ascend right next to the No Ascending sign is a ballsy move, I'll give him that. :)

Addicted_Reader

Manda probably disagrees with everything on this rotten world. Truth, ultimately, is Manda’s master.

Addicted_Reader

I agree with you Baconwargod. Some version of many of the things described in the book happens in real life. Rape, murder, genocide, abuse, assault, war, death, manufactured famines, destruction of the planet for profit, slavery, private military corporations and brutal propaganda all exist. Not sure why the existence of any of those things is supposed to make me an anti-capitalist. Particularly when all the alternatives do worse. And Kain: Name me one society in human existence which doesn't have these evils. I'll wait.

Kain

I can guess which hemisphere you live in and several countries you don’t if you think no where in the 21st century resembles, or is worse than, the world depicted in this book. Also you think maybe it’s not “human nature” but that human behavior might actually have more to do with the systems we grow up in? Maybe certain behavioral patterns are rewarded and thus propagate through individuals and groups? Maybe what you see as “human nature” is just the nature our current system promotes and enforces ya know…. Like this book depicts and discusses at length multiple times.

Baconwargod

Dude every SINGLE thing that happens to Truth to make him what he is has happened in our world. We may not have magic but kids growing up in slums salvaging garbage for money, check. Kids having abusive parents that steal from them check. Mothers falling for MLMs check. Alcoholic fathers that beat their kids check. Kids having to dodge drug dealers and pimps on their way to school check. Men getting enlisted in a Private Military to make ends meet for their families check. Said individual being thrown away like trash when its convenient for the bottom line of the corporation check. ALLLLL OF IT HAPPENS IN REAL LIFE! Just because you personally haven't seen doesn't mean it isn't common it just means you haven't seen it. THE ENTIRE SERIES IS ABOUT A GUY WHO WAS FAILED BY THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM HE GREW UP IN AND CAME BACK TO TEAR IT ALL DOWN! This is the main theme of the series as a whole! And all of it is meant to parallel our world.

Kain

Gotta love original sin

Addicted_Reader

Well, I look at 21st century capitalism, and I see something dramatically better than anything in the book. I have yet to see anything in the book that would be better than what we have and which doesn’t rely on a sudden and inexplicable change in human nature (or divine intervention). As for “How are you here”, Warby’s writing is exceptionally good, and worth what I pay for it.

Tessellae

I guess this stele is what Manda disagrees with then?

Baconwargod

How have you gotten through 5 volumes of this and come away as pro capitalism? There are several chapters that are near word for word socialist critiques. The main villain of the story just explicitly stated they are a hyper capitalist. He and the system are literally the bad guys. How are you here?

Addicted_Reader

Still the most successful system in human history. If you ever come up with a better one, write a manifesto

Kain

Brother if “The main function of a business is to bring the proprietor profit. As long as a corporation acts in line with that principle, whatever it does, is both moral and ethically correct.”  Resembles your doctrine in any way even if you add in a carve out for fraud, which we know was only carved out because fraud is lying to owners or potential owners. Then you’re a POS no other way around it.

Findell

Only Fallen think that way. Normal Angels dont.

Deathly_God

Extra ironic is that they talk about Ignorance being Death Eternal, but then condemning them to Ignorance because they were ignorant. A world unchanging, which I guess fits with this limited angel's view of God.

Jeff Casey

Nooo I have to wait until next week! Bonus chapter pretty pleaseeeee?

JTP

There's cathartic, and then there's several hundred chapters of well deserved payback. Love it

axel jensen

I don't disagree with that, just what the angel did, instead of fixing the false worship it banned getting closer to God, making the problem worse

ioajfidsnmfomds77

They were instructed on how to do things right and chose to do them wrong. Clearly unborn children thousands of years from then should be punished

Addicted_Reader

From the Bible, we know that certain populations continuously ignored Gods teachings and started worshipping false gods almost immediately after receiving revelations. Probably a play on that trope.

austin kutz

Angels are in a strange category since it seems like they're fully sapient but view this sapience as a personal failing since it's an indication that they're not fully one with God. Because of this, they try as hard as they can to ignore and disregard their sapience

Addicted_Reader

Friedman Doctrine, except without the whole “by no fraud” part. What a communist imagines the doctrine to be. I guess the angel’s decree is punishment like what happened to the Jews. Wandering on Sinai for 40 years. Except maybe 40,000 years for these people…

Jordan

This part of that not one penny thing? Starbrite offers Truth the ability to govern the world while he sleeps for the low, low, cost of one penny.

Kain

One question I have is the ban on leaving the planet bodily. We have records of people buying their way onto void ships right? And the shattervoid have promised Truth and a good number of others a way out are they bypassing this restriction in some way? I’ve had my doubts about the shattervoids having a complete monopoly on space travel for a while maybe they just have a monopoly on planets like this that are embargoed because their methods bypass the restrictions in some way. Another thing Sally did say they brought Starbright here a long time ago right? That he got a dirt cheap ticket/they paid him because his cultivation was so high it made the trip much easier?

gostsamo

For whoever is interested, the system is quoting Milton Friedman. What happens to it is oh so satisfying and has nothing to do with what many people would like to happen to Friedman himself.

Kain

From what we’ve been told Angels don’t really know or think let alone act without prompting. My bet is that whole stelle is someone else’s doing someone hundreds/thousands of years ago whispered in the Angels ear and convinced them this was the correct action to take because it is in accordance with gods will. Though the level of sentience/sapience of angels and demons does bounce around a little so I could be wrong on this.

austin kutz

Lol, if this whole thing ends with a "we'll just have to agree to disagree" and a removed head that'd be pretty funny. Not that I think cutting his head off is enough to kill Starbright, but still

axel jensen

The angel really fucked over the entire planet because it's mad that they don't worship God in the right way, How about you fix the issue instead and educate them on how to do it properly instead of being the largest asshole and bad parent on the planet.

Taedirk

I love a happy ending.


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