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[COLUMN] In Its Final Moments, the DCEU Caught Up to Marvel's Starting Point | by Darren Mooney

🕑 Added 2024-01-05 16:00:11 +0000 UTC

Comments

NeonTech

Personally i feel these connected universes or massive franchises just do not work as well for me as they did it feels like the MCU was lightning in a bottle no one else will be able to capture. you will not get another string of movies that kept up that level of consistent fun and mostly quality

Jack Philipson

@Darren Mooney: There are also runs on in-continuity stuff like Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, Grant Morrison's Animal Man, the aforementioned Batman Year One, and early Hellblazer stuff that bear going back to - Animal Man's a bit compromised by an event happening in the middle of it but it's mostly it's own thing. There's also just a lot of interesting limited series of ambiguous continuity that just sort of are - Gaiman and McKean's Black Orchid, Superman for All Seasons, The Long Halloween, A Serious House on Serious Earth, and so on. It's not that Marvel is devoid of comics where they just try stuff out and/or do a tight run that focuses on one story but it never seems to take in the same way. Like you've got Old Man Logan, the Milligan/Allred X-Force run, The End, Spiderman Reign, Loeb and Sale's colour series, and 1602, but none of them *quite* have that name recognition.

Darren Mooney

@Ryallen: It still stands up as one of the best ever, but - yeah - as you said, it seems an aberation rather than a sign of things to come. (As per the Fox/Disney acquisition.)

Darren Mooney

Ha! Hey, I'm optimistic about "Superman Legacy." Gunn is the most consistent of the modern generation of comic book movie directors.

W. Fry

When you are told the car is dead before you've turned the key, perhaps all there is to do is riff on the first model. Alternate take: Maybe it was just a way for Wan to appease Mamoa's ego. Either way, I can't wait for the era of the comic book "No Country for Old Men", and "Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford." Happy new year.

Rev Zsaz

It absolutely is. I haven't even been watching movies lately because I got bored. I've wanted to see Barbie and Oppenheimer and several others for a while now, just not badly enough to put any effort into the venture. Maybe I give it a shot soon since most of what's on my list seems like it got good reception 🤷🏻‍♂️ Not so hungry anymore, more like craving a snack I suppose.

Darren Mooney

Cheers. Part of me wonders if Momoa did improvise or adlib that. But it's still telling that - if he did - the grand summing-it-all-up statement for his take on this character (who starred in his own billion-dollar solo movie) is to riff on "Iron Man."

Kai

Sounds like a few more years of barely having a grasp of what's going on in the DCEU for me then! :D

Darren Mooney

Happy New Year to you too! I also think that fifteen years is enough time to try and cook something new.

Darren Mooney

The thing about Gunn, as exciting as he is, is that: (a.) he's late to the party and (b.) he's working at a company that (top-down) has struggled to set clear objectives for itself over the past five years. It's great that he's clearing the slate and taking a break. However, I wonder how long his vision will last when there's gossip of Warners and Paramount merging or whatever, and the internal restructuring that comes with that.

Darren Mooney

@Earl Elmore: It's frustrating because the campany has had success with projects that don't adhere to that template. "The Dark Knight", "The Batman" and "Joker" are all projects that could never exist inside the framework of an MCU shared universe, and point to a model that the company could have been pursuing. (I suspect "Joker 2" will outperform any of last year's DC movies.)

Darren Mooney

@erakfishfishfish: Ha. I find I can revist runs from both publishers handily enough, but they are generally the ones furthest from the spine of continuity: Morrison's "X-Men", for example.

Darren Mooney

@Wally: Ha! Yeah, that was why "Earth X" didn't jump to mind for me.

W. Fry

It feels a bit harsh to say, "[I]t seems like Warner Bros. are simply copying their competitor’s fifteen-year-old homework" about Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom. **Apologies to Blue Beetle, I have not seen you. ** I could certainly be way off mark, and perhaps Warner insisted Wan put "I am Aquaman" at the end of his film. Who knows how much script doctoring was imposed on Wan by both Mamoa and corporate? But, to me, Mamoa mouthing those words at the end of ALK felt like an artist's statement. Let us not forget the preceding 100 minutes featured massive Flash Gordon-style sets, a wackadoodle desert crab-alien chase, fish mechs, and an octopus doing covert ops. I mean, the film features Martin Short as a fish mobster. What I am trying to say is, outside of the environmental side plot obviously demanded by Mamoa, I didn't watch the film feeling like the film was dictated by committee. Aquaman and the Lost Kindgdom didn't feel like anything but a James Wan film, with all of his style, swagger, and strange authorial quirks front and center. To quote "the quote" that started it all seemed to me to be Wan trying to say something with his parting words about this entire multi-billion dollar comic book craziness. I think he was trying to say that comic book movies should be fun, and weird, and messy, and not so damned self-serious. After all, wasn't the full quote, "I am Aquaman! EEEYAAAH!" Either way, great stuff as always Darren.

Rev Zsaz

I agree man - leftovers can be tasty, but they get boring when you eat the same thing for extended stretches. I'm excited for newer, riskier works. I want some scuff and maybe a little lens dirt. Cheers Darren and thanks for these awesome pieces 🙏🍻 Happy New Year! 🥳

erakfishfishfish

It’s funny, because I always liked Marvel characters better, but DC comics are easier to revisit. (I don’t read either these days—I much prefer standalone titles with no shared universes that don’t require any homework like Chew or the works of Brian K Vaughn.)

Wally Hackenslacker

From Marvel the only titles I can think of that would be standalone in the same way as say "Watchment" or "Sandman" aside from "Marvels" would be "Earth X" and Genndy Tartakovsky's "Cage!". Really, outside of those 3 I'm drawing blanks. And imho, it's kinda funny how "Earth X" and "Marvels" are in a sense a celebration of how spectacularly inaccessible and bloated the continuity of the regular Marvel universe is.

Kai

I've got a fairly outside perspective on the DCEU - I've watched, I think, a whole 3 films that are definitely part of it and a couple of Batman-adjacent movies that I have no idea if were a part of the DCEU but don't seem to have been served in any way by being part of it even if they were. Every time I catch DCEU news on the wind it seems to be rebooting or stopping or otherwise contradicting the last thing I thought I knew about it. "They just released Suicide Squad and its terrible" is followed by "they just released Suicide Squad and its great" (I did watch the Gunn one), Justice League just kept happening, every time the DCEU seemed to be finding its footing it seemed to promptly put that foot straight back in it with another stinker or another reboot. And peppered throughout a bunch of other DC movies that weren't (afaik) part of the wider DCEU that but seemed similarly trapped in weird reboot cycles like a dodgy xbox. How many people have played Batman in big blockbuster DC films over the last 15 years? At least 3, I think? This article to me brings the news that the DCEU is ending (again?). The last info I had was that James Gunn was helming it now and therefore stood a chance of being good. Another DCEU logical contradiction. They say the MCU's becoming a bit of a tangled mess (I'd largely agree) but it's at least all in service to a single story, all the ducks walking in the same general direction. With the DCEU, I don't even know where to begin, and there's the constant feeling that the answer to that changes every time I hear about it. A bizzarre franchise. Happy new year, Darren

Ryallen

I remember people thought that Logan was the super hero genre entering its Neo-Western phase but we still have yet to get anything similar to that consistently

Earl Elmore

DC's strength in tv/movie media has ALWAYS been their animation division. It's a pity that side of the business has taken a beating to fuel the chasing of the MCU dragon.

Darren Mooney

Yep. I think the western comparison is good, but I think the superhero genre still has to enter its revisionist phase, like the western did about fifteen years after “The Searchers.” I think corporate control is still too tight to allow for that. I do agree with you on “The Suicide Squad.” That thing is just phenomenal.

Darren Mooney

Thank you! There are two more coming over the weekend, so hopefully you’ll enjoy those too.

Darren Mooney

Yep, that’s a point that I think I’ve heard comic book retailers make. “Watchmen”, “Sandman”, “Batman: Year One”, “All-Star Superman” and “Dark Knight Returns” (and to a lesser extent even “New Frontier”) are evergreen titles, and Marvel doesn’t really have any equivalents. “Marvels”, maybe? Miller’s “Daredevil”, perhaps? Nothing that is a truly self-contained continuity-free, easy-to-pick-up title. And I think you’re right it is reflected in their films.

Ryallen

It's interesting to think about superhero movies as the new Western, a lot of people consider Westerns to be classics without realizing that the reason we don't get them anymore was due to oversaturation. Who's to say in 20-30 years they won't be considered classics too? I do wonder what superhero movies will be considered the best of the best when that happens. James Gunn's Suicide Squad is an obvious choice, it's a phenomenal film while also not needing any prior knowledge to derive enjoyment from it. The Spider-verse movies are also both amazing. But ask me about any Disney-produced Marvel movie that might make the list and I wouldn't be able to tell you. Of course that might just be the feeling of commodification that Marvel suffers from as a result of being such a massive financial success, that the MCU is less well made cinematic experiences and more content to be consumed. But hey, maybe Westerns like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly suffered from that too in the beginning then that feeling was eventually lost. It's a shame Warner is struggling so much with matching the MCU on a cinematic level. Their television and animation output far surpass most of Marvel's catalogue by a good distance, even disregarding their late 90s-00s run of animated shows like Justice League, Static Shock, and BTAS. Harley Quinn, My Adventures with Superman, even their Suicide Squad animated movies are all incredibly solid. But I suppose there's not really much of a market for PG-13 or even R rated animated movies in the mainstream. I'd even go so far as to say they've been doing a lot better in their comic runs, I see more people talking about stuff like White Knight and Red Son more than anything Marvel's been doing recently. But maybe that's more due to my not reading comics generally and Marvel's been doing fantastically lately otherwise.

Earl Elmore

I don't really like movies that much and don't watch many, but these columns are always a pretty interesting read nonetheless.

Jack Philipson

I own some DC comics but no Marvel comics because it's much easier to find distinctive essentially standalone works that came out of DC and I hope Warner Brothers look at the success of The Batman and Joker doing that kind of thing for the screen and lean into it more.


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