Post "Looking for Feedback on Livestreams" by "SecondWindGroup" from patreon

Brian S

I've had trouble finding the livestreams when they were on a seperate channel, so I would suggest keeping them on the mothership.

Embrace_the_Jank

I am in the camp of Live Streams on the main channel, archived on the other channel but with another name, if changing it is possible. Instead of Second Wind Live, maybe Second Wind Archives or Second Wind Annals (because, yeah)...

Keyvan

I was just going to comment on Youtube but came to comment here and saw this post. Could JM8 stop saying bitch please? I stopped watching streams that he is in a while a ago, I gave it another shot recently and he still says that. I have to stop watching those streams again.

Alex Morgan

The suggestion of having the VOD on the live account as an archive seems like a good solution, it makes a lot more sense than having some streams on the main channel and some on the live one. Though to be honest I'm not all that picky about streams/premiers in my feed so I might not be representative.. Add-on: I like the point @Guglop makes above. The live channel hasn't grown because it's treated as ancillary. It either needs to be a whole-hog with podcasts and event streams (risky, internet news has long moved on) or relegated to an archive (definitely my vote).

Maciej Myczkowski

I go to the main channel to look for something short that I'll pay full attention to, and I browse what's there to try new things when they show up. I go to the live channel when I need something to play in the background while I'm doing something else. If everything was in one place, it would be hard to find what I want, I'd have to rely on playlists, and then I'd miss a lot of your content.

Starboard

Perfect. Do this and then you can send people to Second Wind Live to check out the full Stream if they like it and discover more. The only downside is you would need people to edit the livestreams so its more work. It might be worth a trial run for a month then review if its working.

Starboard

Keep them seperate. Second Wind live for live stuff. Second Wind for edited content. They are two different things and it makes it easier for me to watch the live stuff because I just go into videos and the latest live videos is right there at the top without having to dig through. The Second Wind youtube channel is cluttered enough already.

Guglop

if you're going to have a LS channel, all the streams should be on that channel with no exceptions. If you occasionally put streams on the main channel you are saying "this video is unimportant and we don't care about it" if it is only posted to the LS channel

Aquarion

I'd go as far as to keep them separated entirely, keep one channel for scripted, edited content and one for streams, events and streams of consciousness stuff.

Bark Flemmingrad

yeah having livestreams happen live on the main channel and get archived on the second channel seems good, it'll be nice to go to the main channel and be able to just see if there is a livestream happening without needing to go to twitch or the secondary channel

Jaxorb

I don't often watch them live, but enjoy listening to them as a podcast, so it doesn't matter much to me where they are. If I like them, I'll tune in

Goblin University

it's not as much problem with cluttering thier own page, as playlists and such exist. The issue (imo) is with it cluttering my sub feed, home page, and sidebar. Even worse when you use mobile.

Eric Schwenke

I also only watch on mobile, both iPad and iPhone. The Live tab is on both.

Mr D Sir

I wonder if co-hosting would be an option. YouTube apparently has this Go Live Together feature that allows one channel to co-host the live stream of another. The caveat is that it's currently mobile only but, if I understand it correctly, it would allow the main channel to announce and host the streams on its channel while everything is actually taking place on the Livestream channel. A desktop version is apparently in the works but no word on when it'd be released.

Joe Donnelly

I don’t much care for livestreams. Keeping them separate would be my choice. I actually wish there was a way to trim down the “live” podcasts to make them easier to listen for audio listeners. You spend almost a half hour or more reading off super chats and donations that only sometimes have anything to do with the podcast topic.

Toksyuryel

Youtube already saves livestream VODs into a separate tab from the regular video uploads so I am not certain I actually understand what the problem is here that would necessitate the existence of a separate channel if you aren't streaming somewhere else and then uploading the VODs from there onto youtube.

Alex

How about you re-host one livestream on the main channel per week? Get channel growth, get some variety on the main channel, make people aware of other content on a regular basis. I'd suggest not archiving them, just have some samples of your good shows on the main channel with a "subscribe to second wind live for more" banner or something.

ClooneyTune

I like the way Evan and Katelyn do their channels... Full version of live on an uncut channel and an edited down, more easily consumable version on a main channel 💚

Jeroen Delcour

I think keeping them separate is better. Livestreams and VODs are a very different kind of content that draws a different audience. Mixing them would dilute the feed for both audiences. That said, promoting the existence of the live channel more wouldn't hurt.

Avalon Hamakei

Please keep them separate. Even putting aside the aesthetic consideration...livestreams are kind of transitory and their value diminishes greatly once they are completed. They also don't have nearly as much replay value as actual curated, scripted videos. But as some have said, the occasional highlights reel might be appreciated. Say once a month or so.

Plague_Vessel

I think keeping them separate is a good idea. I think the bulk of the streams should be live and full length recordings kept on the live channel, with shorter form edited / highlight versions uploaded to the main channel.

Steven Simzak

I watch everything on delay or after it has ended. I prefer them separate. Keep plugging the Live Channel on the Main Channel. Maybe an ad spot before the Yahtzee Tries highlights would help.

Ultraczar

I like keeping them separate, but one thing I think is a good possibility is for putting highlights on the main channel much like the Yahtzee Tries summaries. That would serve both as shorter form videos where we get to interact with more of the team (and catch up on in jokes) but also act as a draw to the live channel. Some extra editing effort but it might bring people in that might not know about the 2nd channel or what you are up to there.

Ken French

I think that makes sense, people can be notified but it does not cause clutter

Michael

I’d rather the live stuff stay out of my feed completely, but it’s not a bad compromise

Alex Lewis

I like the podcasts but don’t watch live. I’m not bothered which feed stuff is on though as I always just grab individual videos for my watch later queue

Mick Cilantro

I very much second @Narasan's proposal. Two other additional thoughts - rotate which show gets highlighted each month so the main channel people will get a taste of everything over time, and maybe consider editing down a long stream into something a little more bite-sized (similar to what you do with Yahtzee Tries). Obviously that's more work, and risks losing some of the energy and flow of the live shows, but it is far more likely that you'll get someone interested in trying to get into trying a 2 hour stream if they've had a 15 minute taster to see what they're missing out on.

Simon Øhlers

Sound like a good solution to me!

Kyle Vanden Eynden

I am not opposed to this suggestion. I agree it’s nice to go to the channel and see all the premium video content in one place. Livestreams mixed into the list of all the other premium videos can water it down. I say this as someone who is always there for the premium videos, but don’t have have time or as much interest to watch livestreams due to work/life demands.

What is Joseph

Keep livestreams separate

James Bonfan

Separating tbh. I catch them as vods regardless, but it's better for me when I'm looking for a specific video

Tommy Salty

I think your idea makes sense. I mainly watch VODs and catch streams live only occasionally. So as long as I can watch a VOD, it doesn't really make a difference for me. If you think the streams can attract more people to the channel, move all the streams there. Unless you're considering having prestige streams on the main channels and some more chill stuff on the secondary one. But I'm sure it's fair to divide your crew into two categories. So I'm fine with the concept if it helps you guys. Thanks, Tommt Salty.

Robert Louis Stoll

I always catch livestreams later... That said I prefer chunked up archives over anything else

Adithya Kale

I do the audio podcasts in the car and occasionally watch VODs but never really have the time for the livestream when they are "live". I'm happy with the current setup but I don't think having more stuff in the feed is spam by any means and if it helps second wind to grow then I'm happy to be slightly inconvenienced

Gavin Thomas

(Shout out to Darren and Marty for their columns.)

Kale Perrien

Separate channels please.

Gavin Thomas

I don't mind either way. I almost exclusively watch VODs, and I tend to watch all the mainline series episodes I can find then cherrypick out of the live streams as time allows. I'm your catch-it-later viewer who isn't really in stream chats and lurks in Discord. So given that, it's all the same to me which channel the videos come from - I use the Subscriptions page of YouTube and work through the new videos there, rather than specifically navigate to one or both of the channel pages to browse categories.

Jay Hash

I am purely here for scripted content, however I have no strong feelings either way— live content I don't watch simply will be ignored, and if it's not there, it's not there. I wouldn't necessarily make it difficult to access (create a Playlist for it, surely), but it may look cleaner if you don't have 1 year old live content being recommended to you by way of the "Oh you REALLY like tiis, do you?!" algorithm.

Peter

moving the vods makes chat interactions and reactions disappear, idk if that is good or bad.

The Ships Cat

I rarely have time to catch the live streams so my vote would be keep them on the Live channel and keep the main channel cleaner and easier to navigate.

Tony

I’d rather keep the livestreams separated, but maybe a short monthly highlights/coming attractions video on the main channel could help growth without getting too annoying.

Splinter Fiction

This seems like a nice solution, but I'm honestly fine with whatever you choose since I'm subscribed to both channels. If you think this will help draw people to your awesome channels, I say go for it. I watch all of the live streams, but I do usually watch the VODs since I can't catch them live sometimes. It's been nice to have the separate channel so I can find the playlists MUCH easier since there is less content smooshed up on one channel. That was something that used to drive me bananas about the "old place" LOL

Cory McLean

I don't watch livestreams. I don't have time when I'm off work and I find them too distracting when I'm working.

Bart King

Don’t have time to watch livestreams, or even listen to podcasts, personally!

John Enright

But they will be there before they air. And sometimes that could be a few days. If I was king I'd never see them. But frankly, it's not a huge deal either way.

Helen

I never watch streams and wait for an audio only podcast. I feel like second wind already fills up my feed and wouldn't want any more

Felipe Estrada

I would prefer no livestreams on the main channel. I am here for video content

Adam Rosenfield

I don't care for the livestreams and would prefer them not cluttering up my subscriptions feed, but honestly it's also not that big of a deal whatever you do IMO.

Jaron Johnson

Ultimately I think it makes sense to move them also because (at least to me) the Livestreams are not Second Wind's primary feature/function. Second Wind seems to make pre-made content FIRST, and do Livestreams SECOND. Representing that with an alternate channel makes sense to me, and I don't think it will hamper your growth as much as it will help you deliver focused content to your fans that want it.

blackguard

People subscribe to content they engage with. If their feeds for a certain channel become content they don't engage with and/or they actively don't want to see, they unsubscribe. And you know this as well given that it was acknowledged very shortly after Second Wind was set up. A compromise was reached by keeping only the "important" streams on the main channel... and now you want to further cut back on that compromise.

Jaron Johnson

I would be in favor of separating the Livestreams - I love second wind an awful lot, and bought some of the merch as well. But even I feel like right now with Livestreams, I am being a little overloaded.

José Morales

I am a person that mostly can't watch livestreams and mostly enjoys the podcast format more (the sense that I NEED to be present watching is too stressful for me). In my case just do whatever benefits the team and the content more. Since the audience is much larger on the Main Channel this plan might be the better way to get the VODs in one place but have the streams we'll announced to everyone. I am subbed to both channels and I think most of the Patreon members are too, but for everyone else maybe the Main Channel has the traction.

Narasan

i think your idea is good,just one suggestion. after a month( or three or whatever) have a vote on which livestream the viewers most enjoyed. have the winner on the mainside as an example for people who want to try it. with links to the other live streams unobstructive somewhere

Nick Calandra

Not true, just pointing out that having to scroll over something scheduled in your feed isn't something we can really take into account. Not cluttering your feed we agree with, and that will be solved by making them unlisted after they air.

Luis Perez

Persionally like that idea. A smart way to keep livestreaming on the main channel and keeping the vods somewhere

Sean_Bahamut

I'm not really into livestreams, timezones make it difficult even if I wanted to watch, and they are too long to catch up on later. I would prefer you go with your proposal where they get unlisted on the main and archived on the backup channel

Damwolf

That's a pretty smart solution, as you retain enganment with the main channel going live still but don't clutter up feeds with 2h vods. It's certainly annoying having to search for unlisted videos, so make sure to put in a bunch of the good key words on the vods on the live channel, as people do search for playthroughs of games for all sorts of reasons

blackguard

Thank you for calling my feedback goofy. Going by your responses to other pieces of feedback under this topic, it seems like you're just looking to validate a decision you've already made.

Zncon

I almost never have time to watch the streams, so they just clutter up my feed. I love the highlights though! The Upcoming items are especially annoying, because when I'm going to YouTube I want to watch something, not check a calendar. I'd be happy if all of the live content moved to the second channel.

Matt J

There's also a tick box to not notify subscribers, so that way it will only be seen in recommended tabs and the home screen. But I can see why you wouldn't want to do that.

Dave

My feed is already overloaded with Second Wind content. Please do not add livestreams to the main channel. And while we're at it, please stop pre-listing "scheduled" videos. That is also creating clutter.

Nyx

Either way is fine for me since I'm subscribed to both. I don't even know which one they are in since they show up on my feed regardless.

GayBearDaddy2

I always watch/listen to the livestreams as VoD because I can't usually watch during the stream. That said, I'm good with the gaming streams being on the Live channel and podcasts on the main channel.

Nick Calandra

Being annoyed by scrolling over a scheduled or livestream is kinda goofy. That's like being annoyed scrolling through a TV guide that the scheduled show isn't live yet haha. After they air they will be unlisted, so they won't be in your feed either way.

Jacob Craig

Yeah, I'm not a huge live stream/podcast person. I do watch the LTT WAN show, but I make heavy use of the chapters so I can skip around. I typically only watch maybe a quarter of their live shows. So far, none of the Second Wind stream vods have added chapters and their conversations tend to wander heavily, so it's basically impossible to go in for what I find interesting. I do enjoy the edited Yahtzee Tries though. It cuts out the usual live stream fluff and provides chapters for jumping around.

DarwinsDummy

As someone who likes the live streams and catches the one I miss on VOD, as long as the VODs are still going up (as the proposed change does) then I'm happy :)

Damwolf

I also enjoy the highlights videos, in particular I would really like highlight videos of the main event streams for instance game awards and Xbox direct etc as mostly i don't want to watch a 4 hour stream but would like the news and reactions from you guys out of those events, thank you x

Grey 0815

I watch all streams, but mostly not live. I like that I have a dedicated channel for the streams.

dirtside

Agreed. It's not a huge deal to me to ignore the livestreams, but I do find myself frequently getting excited that there's a new SW video, and then immediately disappointed that it's a livestream. ;)

Nick Calandra

Very hard to keep trying to promote multiple channels that people have to jump around to. Even if you don't watch the livestreams, they won't clutter your feed when they're unlisted after they air.

Mellow Magog

I'm a fan of how you've got it set up currently. I like having the main channel clean and crisp even though I watch most of the VODs of the streams. I never seem to be able to watch them live no matter the time, my schedule is too all over the place.

Anthony White

I can't speak for what most people like but I don't watch live streams whatsoever only ever highlights

Nick Calandra

Yes, they will be in categorized playlists that you can find on the channel, with the videos in there even if they're unlisted. They just won't be in your subscriber / home feed after they air.

ixi

I'm really not a livestream person, so having them on a designated streaming channel is better for my own experience. If I ever want to check them out I know where to find them! I really like the stream highlights of the Yahtzee Plays vids on the main channel. No one asked, but I really like stream highlight videos because its nice to feel included even when I don't have the time/attention span for long livestreams

Nick Calandra

As stated, they won't clutter your feed. They'll be unlisted after they air.

Nick Calandra

They will not be in your sub feed except for when they're scheduled and live, and then after that the VOD is unlisted and won't be in your feed.

Kai

I'd keep the split, maybe run the occasional ad or shoutout for the live channel on your main channel vids like you do with the merch ones, or bake a note into the credits about it? The only points the live channel gets mentioned on the main channel is pretty much the end of podcasts (the audience for those probably already fairly heavily overlaps your livestream audience anyway) and community posts, so something baked into the produced vids might help too. Also, minor thing - Yahtzee Tries. Suggest calling the livestream "Yahtzee Tries Live" or something to differentiate from the edited vids? The differentiator was supposed to be that all the live ones were just on the live channel and all the edited ones were just on the main channel, but there's already a few outliers that might be confusing to people.

BiscuitsAndBBQ

Proposed solution sounds great, also simplifies the whole thing about which channel to get the paid sub/green gang too

btmp

I’m really just never going to casually watch a YouTube livestream. It’s a bad platform fit. Livestreams cluttering up my YouTube subscriptions is frustrating in all scenarios. I come in for a big event now and again, but if I’m going to make a habit of watching streams it would need to be twitch.

Andrew Ducker

I don't care about livestreams. I watch the edited version of Yahtzee Tries, but have no interest in the long form versions. So anything which moves them out of the main view entirely is good for me.

David Johnson

I agree with this. Also just adding my thought that for live streams go for quality over quantity. You don't want that experience to get watered down

van_Zeller

I *only* ever watch pre-written, condensed, edited content, the kind that takes 6 days to produce 6 minutes. That means no streams, no podcasts. I would personally be happy if all streams (and even podcasts!) were to live in another channel.

dlgn13

Oh, I see. That sounds like a good solution from this viewer's perspective, then!

Lucas Roote

If they are unlisted on the main channel would it possible to view them if we search for them? Just as a way to preserve the chat. Otherwise I think having the live channel be an archive of streams almost makes too much sense. Like there must have been a reason you guys didn't do it kind of sense :).

Tim

Id like them in my feed. Don’t care via which channel, really

Nick Calandra

You would see them in the playlists on the page!

Roboknob

Imho, it’s too soon to move the content around multiple channels. Keep growing your content on the second wind channel and set a milestone in terms of subscribers before creating a new dedicated channel. Your goal is to- I assume - getting enough subscribers (and then potential Patreon subscribers) asap. Those who already follow you won’t stop just because the live video also appear on their feed, while the live videos cater to audiences interested in that content. If you make a dedicated channel right now, I would expect it to be a graveyard where only a tiny fraction of new viewers will go. But then again, the algorithm is a damn bitch that does whatever the fuck it wants and my god, I know that, so for all we know this hypothetical second channel might be pushed like crazy

blackguard

Since they'd be cluttering my subscription feed while they're being scheduled and live, I don't think this would resolve anything other than the backlog clutter. Annoyance would still be there for me unfortunately. Please don't move more streams to the main channel, it's annoying as it is.

John Enright

FWIW, I have little interest in the livestreams. I'd rather keep the status quo so they never clutter up the main feed.

Marc-André Pelletier

That seems like a reasonable approach, but the bigger question fundamentally is how much overlap _is_ there in practice between the two audiences? Because that bit of data is what I think needs to inform the decision.

Jack Dawson

This sounds aggressively sensible.

dlgn13

It would be a shame to have the original videos unlisted, because (if I'm not mistaken) viewers of the reuploads would not be able to see the live chat replay.

Daniel Rumbold

Do what's best for the business. Either way doesn't bother me.

MB-1337

I don't mind getting a notification for them, since I'm more of a fan of "friends playing a fun game together" livestreams. So, I'm fine with livestreams remaining listed on the main channel. However, if you feel your audience may prefer the way you suggested, that's fine with me (I would just need a link to the archival channel).