GordoTEK
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Congrats WINNERS of the Summer 2023 Cultivar Cup! (You guys took me down hard ;)
🕑 Added 2023-06-23 04:11:15 +0000 UTCWow, I didn't even place in the TOP 4?! 😂 Soundly beaten by the very people I gave spores to:
😂 I'm super happy about this to be honest, I think some people were starting to think the Cultivar Cup was rigged for me to win, now you know the truth! 😇.
It was really great to see so much participation in this latest Cup, the number of participants more than doubled from the prior one! Full results can be found here (there are some summary graphs in the root folder at this link, but you can also click/tap the subfolders to find detailed individual reports). There is much we can learn from all of this testing. For what it's worth, it's hard to compare the results of past Cups to the current one, as the methods have been refined and improved (12 point calibration curves and a new extraction method). I have also been doing some inter-lab comparison testing myself to see if a consensus view would emerge, and it has. I can now happily report that FOUR different labs all produced approximately the same results on samples I sent them, even though they all use different methods - this gives me a lot of confidence at least in these four particular labs: Tryptomics, Altitude Consulting, Tryp Labs and MagicMyco. Here are the TTBVI references from these other labs (COA 1 PCBE=3.47%, COA 2 PCBE=3.35% and COA 3 PCBE=3.69%).
Here is a closer look at the Summer 2023 Cultivar Cup winning entry:
"Do Boy" pretty much followed my past recommendations, he went to agar first, used coir/manure based substrate, fruited at a higher temp (80F/27C), Martha setup for 5 minutes of humidification every 20 minutes and fresh air fan for 4 minutes per hour. He harvested a bit on the early side before too much spore production, quickly dried the fruit bodies, then stored them in UV blocking jars with Argon. JOB WELL DONE!
My own TTBVI entry came in at 2.99% PCBE. I attribute this lower value to the fact that I sent in a second flush, that was more mature at harvest. I also dried it at a higher temperature (160F) which may not be desirable (but don't draw conclusions on that yet, I will have to do a more careful comparison of drying temperatures in the future, more scientifically conducted, with the same flush dried simultaneously at different temps with each comparison sample tested at the same time). All of this data is really great, we now know that the normal range for TTBVI could be anywhere from 3% to about 4.5% depending on how it is grown, when it is harvested, and how it is dried and stored. [Note: there were a couple of samples that were dried for 18+ hours at lower temps and these tested lower in potency, so lesson learned here, dry them with at least 140F temps and short duration (normally 3-4 hours) for max potency!]
I also wanted to be sure to test some new cultivars. I had sent in "Weza" a pan cyan from South Africa (credit for the spores goes to VLCenterCoast), as well as "XL" a pan cyan discovered in Texas by dsernabledesigns.
Both tested in the very respectable range, here's Weza:
And XL:
XL sadly, failed Doma's new "yeast and mold" analysis. You can actually see in the above picture of the growing fruit that there are some "dark spots" on some caps that may not just be from typical benign spore drop. This yeast and mold testing is standard in the cannabis industry where any score above 10,000 is a "FAIL". Doma decided any score above 1,000 was a "FAIL" in his analysis for mushrooms with the reason being that people more often smoke cannabis but eat mushrooms therefore more strict standards should apply to mushrooms. I'm not completely sure that is sound reasoning, as cannabis is also often eaten as well and I would think the safety standard would likely have to be the same for both products. Doma did mention that no sample would have failed if the limit was the 10k used by the cannabis industry. Furthermore it is not clear to me if normal mushroom spores of the species you were growing would also throw off the yeast and mold test? If so, then it really isn't valid for mushroom testing AT ALL. But regardless I thought it was an interesting new twist introduced in this Cup, something to look into more. I am all for people focusing on producing clean/pure products and if this helps, that's great. This might give people one more reason to harvest before spore drop which is pretty much a best practice anyway (it is not good for your health or the health of the growers/harvesters to be breathing in a lot of spores).
I'll wrap this post up with some thoughts about searching for new mushrooms to grow...
There are over 14,000 species of known mushrooms, but only a very small number have been shown to be worth growing for human consumption. Likewise, there are over 180 known species of psychedelic mushrooms and yet the same rule of thumb pretty much applies. I'm all for testing every species out there, but it should pretty much be expected that very few will be actually worth growing. Here is a list of my criteria, any good candidate must at least have a few from the list:
1) Easy to grow indoors.
2) Fast growing.
3) High in active alkaloids.
4) Resistant to contamination.
5) High in one or more minor alkaloids.
6) Very positive or unusual user experience reports.
7) Non-toxic, and not associated with wood lovers paralysis.
8) Not associated with dysphoria, nausea, high body load, or negativity.
People are always asking me, have you grown x, y, or z? My first question is always - do you know of some compelling reason WHY I should grow it?
Subtropicalis is one example that several people have asked me about, allegedly its quite potent although the HPLC testing I've seen puts it at around 2% PCBE, so not nearly as potent as pan cyan, and its not particularly high in any minor alkaloids. It's much slower to grow & fruit than pan cyan. I am actually growing it now just for research purposes, but so far I don't see any good reason to grow it.
Natalensis is one species that I've heard a lot about and also decided to pursue, and I actually DO think its a good species to grow. It has very unusual mycelium, strong and resistant to contamination, very good user experience reports, has tested high in minor alkaloids, is generally considered more potent than most cubes (but less potent than pan cyan). I will publish more research on this species in the future.
Bisporus is another species of interest. It is quite potent, and actually won the last hyphae cup, but considerably less potent than a strong pan cyan, and much slower growing. I've grown it and am still not sure its worth growing. One interesting attribute is that once it starts fruiting it can keep fruiting for months, but not huge thick canopies. Caps can get quite large, great for printing.
Zapotecorum: Haven't researched it too much yet but Jordan Jacobs from Tryplabs testing showed it is quite potent, but again not as potent as a strong pan cyan. From what I've read it is quite difficult to indoor cultivate, and extremely slow. I don't really find it very enticing to be honest.
Mexicana: Interested mostly based on anecdotes, it's not that potent but seems to be associated with very positive user experiences. Some cultivars of this species are intended for sclerotia harvest - but I have pretty much zero interest in sclerotia (slow and dirty, what's the point?) but other cultivars of this species do produce fruit bodies. Supposedly this species was a favorite of Maria Sabina. Definitely worthy of further investigation.
Regarding pan cyan cultivars, Estero was once my favorite, but then I found TTBVI, which is just as aggressive on agar/grain, just as fast from spores to harvest, but is more potent than Estero and easier to print. From my perspective TTBVI is superior so I stopped growing Estero. As you can see above, I recently researched the pan cyan cultivars "XL" and "Weza", while they were fun to grow, both seem inferior to TTBVI, so I don't know what the point is in growing them other than the novelty of growing something different. NVTX (another cultivar from dsernabledesigns) is of interest to me (I have not grown it, don't think it has ever been tested).
Similarly, many people ask me about hybrids (and mutant strains). This is not something I have much interest in to be honest. I know it's "all the rage" in some circles, and there are endless people making hybrids and posting about them on social media and on YouTube. In the past this seemed like mostly a part of the "Cube Cult" but now I see it spreading to other species. So far, no one has produced a hybrid that is superior to the cultivars directly found in nature as far as I know. For example TTBVI, the most potent known cultivar in the world (for now anyway) is not a hybrid. I have grown out many hybrids and did not find any of them worth growing for various reasons (weaker genetics, less aggressive on agar/substrate, poor printing, slower, lower potency, etc). I just don't see the point other than the sheer entertainment value and hope of discovering something interesting. Part of it seems to be ego driven, everyone wants to come up with their own cultivar and give it their own name so they can be "famous", hahah. I think time is better spent elsewhere, but I'm all for people experimenting and I can see the fun in it. It is quite possible that one day someone will produce a hybrid of significant value.
Sometimes it is easy to lose one's focus. Don't be distracted by unimportant things. Life is short. Live it well, and help someone else along the way. We are entering arguably the most important time in all of human history, you are lucky to have been born when you were, to experience the things that are coming into this world. More on this in a future post...
Blessings to you,
Gordo
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Links to all of my TEKs, Videos, Trip music, and frequently asked questions with answers can be found here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/22774475 (everything is made available for FREE, I do not use pay walls, support the work only if you feel like you've benefited from it and you are able to do so). People have told me my work has helped them overcome depression, addictions, PTSD, relationship issues, direction in life, and to have important, meaningful, sometimes life changing mystical experiences. I feel honored and blessed to play a small role in this. That is my reward.
Comments
Herr Tony
gordo how about spraying with some trichoderma strain, would not prevent that kind of fungi? We dont like trichoderma but for plants is of great use.
Chuck Demars
I had germination on agar in 2 days from the TTBVI print. Crazy genetics!! Thx again!
GordoTEK
Yea I don't put too much stock in it either. But still we should strive for nice clean fruit bodies, I would normally toss anything that looked sketchy. But people don't understand competing fungi very well. For example I also grow organic apples, I don't sell them, they are just for my family, friends and neighbors. But because I don't spray pesticides all over them, it is quite common for them to get fungi growing on them including sooty blotch and fly spec, its almost impossible to completely scrub off, but I eat these apples all the time, they cause no harm to humans.
GordoTEK
Agree, so far I haven't found anything better.
GordoTEK
Just private message me on here (in the app there should be a message icon, or on the website there is also a messages link, put GordoTEK in the to line). I still give out free prints to all patrons. I used to give them to anyone that asked but after sending out more than a thousand I had to cut back and limit it to just patrons. Its only $2 minimum, which hardly covers the cost of my time to do it and the stamp and envelope ;)
GordoTEK
Just private message me on here (in the app there should be a message icon, or on the website there is also a messages link, put GordoTEK in the to line). I still give out free prints to all patrons. I used to give them to anyone that asked but after sending out more than a thousand I had to cut back and limit it to just patrons. Its only $2 minimum, which hardly covers the cost of my time to do it and the stamp and envelope ;)
GordoTEK
Just private message me on here (in the app there should be a message icon, or on the website there is also a messages link, put GordoTEK in the to line). I still give out free prints to all patrons. I used to give them to anyone that asked but after sending out more than a thousand I had to cut back and limit it to just patrons. Its only $2 minimum, which hardly covers the cost of my time to do it and the stamp and envelope ;)
GordoTEK
Thanks brother!
GordoTEK
I will generally not even do plate to plate transfers, you can get basic minimal isolation on the first plate, I rarely do multi-spore grows. What I do is put a tiny spec of spores on the center of several plates, and let it grow out to within 1cm of the plate edge, then I take the best looking, most vigorous, healthy, clean looking outer edge growth and put those cuttings to sterile grain. Some people do multiple agar to agar transfers for further isolation and there is nothing wrong with that, I just haven't noticed any real value in it personally.
GordoTEK
My preferred method is just to store them in glass mason jars, I add Argon to exclude all oxygen. Desiccant is also recommended. But vacuum sealing can also work.
Chuck Demars
The yeast and mold score is ridiculous. It’s more hazardous to inhale mold than it is to eat it, therefore it’s backwards
Derek Gladden
I’ve grown out several exotics at this point, but always end up coming back to TTBVI. I’ve yet to find anything that comes close in effect.
jesse
Gordo how do I get a spore print to work with?
Aranzel Tulio
What is the chance I can get a print of your cyan?!?
Mr. Shroom Extraordinaire
Gordo, where can I get TRBVI spores at? I can’t find any online vendors.
Shaboy
Just reading about the healing the shrooms brought you warms my heart , so blessed.
Shaboy
Just received TTBVI, Natalensis and Weza prints our beloved Johnny Mushroomseed. Thanks @Gordo , being a total newb I pledge to be be more proof of your teks and keep spreading the love! So much gratitude for your passionate efforts (effortless?) , the envelope was drenched with good vibes, your positive motivation and warm love. May the long time sun shine up on you and all !
Free Radical
Hi. I'm curious if any of the entries for the TTBVI's are selected isolates or simply homogenized multispore samples? In my experience, phenotype plays one of the biggest roles in potency, tho personally i've never bothered isolating with Pans because they're generally awesome and I'm happy to leave my experience to the the will of the gods... for a competition on the other hand or for discovering maximum potential.....
InnerVu
HI! Following the storage question... what are your thoughts on long term storage options after dehydrating, is vacuum sealing the way to go? thank you @gordo
GordoTEK
Yes, its very interesting because test results are conflicting. One published paper showed that freeze drying them actually destroyed most of the alkaloids, but this perplexed a lot of people who have reported the opposite, that freeze drying actually preserves the alkaloids well. Hyphae labs operator has tested many freeze dried samples and he believes its a superior method of drying. However the best study I've seen was published by Doma/MagicMyco where he actually split individual mushroom fruit bodies right down the center and dehydrator dried one side and freeze dried the other (in a Harvest Right freeze drying which is the most recommended model). The result? Freeze drying preserved the alkaloids well, BUT was slightly worse than just regular dehydrator drying. I'd have to dig up the link to the results, but they are on his site somewhere. But anyway from my perspective I think there is sufficient evidence now that spending thousands of dollars for a freeze dryer is not worth it for mycology (although it may be worth it for other purposes).
GordoTEK
TTBVI and Estero are the fastest (most aggressive) on agar of all the pan cyan cultivars I have tested.
Adam James
Im looking forward to getting some TTBVI. @gordo quick question. Some of my pan cyan strains tend to be much more aggressive on agar than others. How have you found TTBVI to grow on agar? Is it typically fast or slow?
Jessica
I’ve been freeze drying my freshly harvested shrooms. Has anyone had freeze dried shrooms tested for potency etc?
GordoTEK
I don't sell prints but give them away to any patron at any tier so you can get one for as little as $2 which pretty much doesn't even cover my time and effort to send them out ;). You can just private message me your address right here on patreon.
BigShrooman
how to order??
BigShrooman
Awww that’s sweet bro/ miss..! I would like a print. $
Do Boy
Just realized I forgot to answer the agar question. I also used the LMEA agar recipe from Gordo's video on how to make and use agar https://www.patreon.com/posts/56209839?utm_campaign=postshare_fan
WackFPV
Well, I still take these test with a grain of salt. The very fact moisture interferes with HPLC testing tells me it’s hard to get consistent readings, even from the same person… Let alone from different people with different drying habits. Also might I add people aren’t even trying anything else… Things are starting to get stagnant. At least you tired something new!
Tracer58
Thanks for another informative post, Gordo! You may not have won the cup but you're still a champ! I just finished building a flow hood a few days ago and poured my first agar as well. I'm getting ready to put some of those TTBVI spores you sent me to agar so I was looking through the envelope you sent them in and was reminded of how much you care about people and sharing your knowledge with others. Reading your words of encouragement and just knowing you took the time to include your extra personal touches and notes without expecting anything in return is pretty cool and refreshing! Thank-you!
GordoTEK
4.5% moisture is not bad. I think you can do a little better by driving out any "last minute" moisture from the cracker dry fruit bodies after you already put them in the jar, but heating the jar up slightly with a heat gun or hair dryer to drive out any remaining moisture plus moisture in the ambient air, this also creates a vacuum seal on the jar which is probably beneficial. As for comparing fresh vs. dried mushrooms, if you were to eat exactly the same "before drying" weight of mushrooms (for example say 10g fresh vs. 0.7g cracker dry) most people report that the fresh mushrooms hit harder. It is actually difficult to scientifically compare the two, as the water in the mushrooms interferes with HPLC testing and then you have to adjust for moisture content to extrapolate the results as well. In practice mushrooms are pretty much always dried before testing, but yea it is quite possible that the drying itself reduces potency to some small extent. The flip side is that fresh mushrooms are only "max potent" immediately after harvest, if they are stored for any amount of time, even one day in a refrigerator, they become less potent. I do not recommend using fresh mushrooms because potency and dosing is more difficult to gage. It's better to dehydrate then homogenize them, so you have consistent reproducible dosing and can store anything that remains with good preservation.
Do Boy
Hey Jay, I used Gordo's ratio for bulk substrate from his Pan Cyan TEK written version https://www.patreon.com/posts/44645256 , substituting the coir for straw. And I didn't add any water because hydrating the coir with 1500ml of boiling water was enough for sure. I used a properly composted horse manure (temperatures checked and turned at intervals) that had been composted with straw. That recipe filled 22 of those carry-out containers for me. I have only used Gordo's method for hydrating the grains, yes. Where he adds them to the boiled water, and leaves covered for 1 hours with lid etcetera. Hope that answers your questions.
Shaboy
You must be proud , when the students surpass the master !
WackFPV
Hmm, the winning genetics sure had a lot of moisture than the rest. I wonder how much more potent a wet mushie is compared to a dried one…?
GordoTEK
Cool yea you can find info at magicmyco.org You want to thoroughly dry samples before sending. Probably best to put it in a small air tight mason jar but this type of baggie would also work: https://amzn.to/3NrNneG (especially if you can heat seal it). Best to harvest slightly on the immature side, definitely before it starts dropping spores.
Jay Marks
DB, namaskaram = I honor that place in you that is 'Love & Light', and when you are in that place in you, and I'm in that place in me...we are 'ONE'.
Jay Marks
Congrats Do Boy! I'm curious to know what agar recipe you used, and ratio of substrate ingredients. Lastly, did you use Gordo method for hydration of grains? -namaskaram
GordoTEK
Great info, thanks for sharing!
Do Boy
For the grain I used equal parts by volume: 1L milo (883g), 1L millet (800g), and 1L oats (704g). That worked perfectly for 4, 64oz jars. I used a very large amount of grain spawn for the bulk substrate! 1, 64oz jar per 7 of those small black take-out trays https://amzn.to/3TPO8zD. That much spawn isn't necessary. However, I was able to case it in just 3 days after spawn to bulk. It fully colonized very quickly.
dude brown
Right on thx for sharing, still beyond satisfied with the esteros have had amazing deep spiritual journeys always learn a lot too the ego loss part can be devastating for a bit and I somtimes aviod it with a lower dose ,under a gram but the larger doses over one gram holy smokes!!!!, some day i'd be interested in giving the natalensis a whirl thx gordo! just like you say in your bulk mushroom vid in the begining our bodys are temples ive been paying as much attention to that as anything latley , peace all. im not religous but have started to open m y heart to others more after an experiece and have been learning and practicing unconditional forgivness to myself included while maintaining healthy boundries we are part of everything and viceversa
Howlin Raven
You know I just went to Magicmyco page and figured it out... may be up in there soon buahahahahaha!
Howlin Raven
I wanna play... how do I apply and compete? How do I package up fruits for testing? Are they dry or as fresh as can be when tested? Do you choose small or tall, young or fully mature?
Pawel
Than you! :)
GordoTEK
Yes, he used a lab journal software this time, but its easy to navigate: http://bit.ly/CCSS2023 There are some summary graphs in the root folder of this link, but you can click/tap the subfolders to find detailed individual reports.
GordoTEK
😂🙏
GordoTEK
I don't know offhand, hopefully some of them will respond to your question.
Pawel
Is there any place where I can find whole list of tested species in this cultivar cup? I'm just curious how it looks like :)
JenX
Bravo - this post is so helpful to a new mycologist such as myself! Blessings to you, Gordo. Congrats to your Padawans!
Michael Nelson
I think Gordo took this year off to make the rest of us feel better lol. Thanks for all that you do.
Peter Muller
Cheers Gordo, TTBVI is absolutely dominating 🙌 Cant wait to see where this community takes it in the next year.
Jeff
👏👏👏👏👏👏 Appreciate the write up!
Mitchell Stowe
Any info on what grain was used in the top 4?
Learn More
Thanks Gordo. Great information as usual.
