GordoTEK
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Mushroom Storage: Science Based Best Practices Plus New Dosing Formula!
🕑 Added 2024-05-24 04:38:35 +0000 UTC[Note: If you use any of my Amazon links it supports the channel! (“As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”)]
In the above video I show what to do with your cracker dry mushrooms after they come out of the dehydrator for optimal alkaloid preservation! It turns out they still sell the Osterizer blender shown in the video that works with mason jars (I checked the reviews and people specifically mention using with mason jars - a very nice feature).
I want to give a huge thank you and shout out to MagicMyco who performed the HPLC analysis on my samples to make this research possible! He can do the same for your samples anytime, and he also runs the Cultivar Cup which is a twice a year community testing event, the next deadline is coming up fast, June 1st! Every single person who entered the Cup last time received some type of prize, and the top prize is a free vacation to a Jamaican resort that looks amazing. He created a discount code "gordotek" that any of my members can use to save on their entry (very big discount and not an affiliate marketing thing, I do not personally benefit from this). There will also be a zoom call for the results & a discussion panel on June 21st.
OK, so I've been monitoring the alkaloids on TTBVI (pan cyan species) over time and previously published results after 4 months, at the time I didn't feel like there was enough data yet to draw definitive conclusions. But now I have 7 month follow up data and the picture is becoming more clear. Here is a summary of the results:
To recap, we are comparing homogenized samples from the same flush harvest of mushrooms, using four different methods of storage, using the panaeolus cyanescens species (specifically TTBVI cultivar), the four storage methods were:
Powdered and covered by the inert gas argon.
Whole form (not powdered) and in argon.
Powdered without argon
Whole form without argon
For the argon, I used a product called "Bloxygen": https://amzn.to/4e6kz82
In comparing the 4 month results with the 7 month results, in every category the potency did continue to deteriorate over time, but the rate of potency loss can be characterized as:
All four samples remained quite potent even after 7 months in storage, with no clear change in the rate of loss (two accelerated slightly, two decelerated slightly). But of the four, a clear winner seems to have emerged, and that is the one that was powdered and protected with argon. Also powdering in general, seems to be superior to whole form, with or without argon (I believe the reason for this is that the powdering allows the mushroom material to be compacted into a smaller area which results in only the top layer having air exposure while the rest is less exposed). Here is a breakdown of the average monthly potency loss by storage type:
We now have enough data that a person who really wanted to be meticulous about their dosing, could use a formula to calculate the required dose for the level of experience they desire. For example the Johns Hopkins researchers used 25mg to 35mg psilocybin equivalent (PCBE) as the standard for a "high dose", lets just pick the middle of that range, 30mg as an example that someone may want to target (I will talk more about dosing in a future post). Next, you will have to determine the potency of your mushrooms either by sending them in for HPLC analysis, doing a home test kit, or you can estimate your potency based on data that has been collected from various community testing events (the largest single data set is here). If estimating based on published testing data, be sure to filter on your particular cultivar, not just the species, and to be more conservative you could use the highest PCBE value, or if you are less conservative, go with the median value. Next, using the numbers from the monthly potency decline table above, you can adjust the dosing as needed according to the number of months you have had your particular sample in storage since it was tested (always label your jars with the cultivar name and date it was harvested). The final steps would be any adjustments to suit your personal sensitivity level to psychedelics (some people are highly sensitive, while others need more, certain medications like SSRIs and SNRIs can also have an impact on sensitivity).
[UPDATE: It turns out, Johns Hopkins who initially insisted on the bodyweight adjusted dosing which I've always been skeptical about, actually self corrected and no longer recommends bodyweight adjustments, so the calculator no longer has a bodyweight adjustment option in case anyone was wondering about that. For what its worth, I requested the raw data from Johns Hopkins years ago to check on this recommendation, it should have been very easy to provide, I wanted to plot MEQ30 scores against bodyweight to see if there was a correlation between the two (if heavier people were consistently getting higher scores it would clearly indicate a problem with the bodyweight adjusted dosing). Hopkins ignored my request and did not send the data, but instead conducted their own internal review and apparently discovered my suspicions were correct. I don't remember them ever publicizing this discovery nor did they ever bother to follow up with me. I am a bit disappointed by the lack of research that went into their initial decision to use bodyweight adjusted dosing in the first place but at least they have corrected the error now. The nice thing about science is that it is generally self correcting over time.]
All of this results in (summon your inner math geek):
So to complete our example, lets say a person grew some TTBVI that potency tested at 3.5% PCBE but it has been in storage for 5 months (on argon), and they would like a 30mg PCBE type experience. How much dry powdered mushroom material should they put into capsules?
Solving for X above, you get 910mg which is 0.91g, so this person would need to measure out approximately 0.91g of their mushroom powder on a gem scale to get the desired experience level.
To explain that equation more, the 30mg is the desired level the person wanted, 0.035=3.5% potency that was either measured by the person or guessed based on published test data, 5 is the months their powder has been in storage with argon, 1.16 is the monthly deterioration rate in potency while in storage, you subtract from 1 and divide by 100 because you want the percentage factor to account for the loss of potency starting from 100%.
MAJOR UPDATE: A patron here has turned the above into a simple easy to use online calculator! Check it out, please post any suggestions/feedback, see: https://www.patreon.com/posts/108308909
Below is a description of psilocybin "experience levels" to help you determine what type of experience you would like to have (the level descriptions are an Erowid classic but as far as I am aware I am the first to put specific PCBE value ranges to these levels and I also expanded the descriptions a bit adding some science based explanations for what is happening in the brain at various levels).
To help a person determine their personal sensitivity it is strongly recommended that you start at the lower levels and work your way up from there as desired, one level at a time with at least 2 weeks between experiences. Also note that researchers found no particular value to going above the highest level range described. Excessive doses can cause elevated fear, anxiety, panic, sweating, paranoia, nausea, dizziness, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. It is not "cool" to brag about taking insanely high doses, its the psychedelic equivalent to the morons who drink an entire case of beer in one night. Also some people taking very high doses simply have very low sensitivity (or high tolerance) for numerous possible reasons (medications they take, past receptor damage, or genetic factors) and they cannot achieve the described levels without taking much higher doses than indicated below. You will figure out your sensitivity as you work your way up the levels, check to see if what you experienced matches the descriptions. You can also use the MEQ-30 questionnaire to confirm what level you have achieved.
[3 to 6mg PCBE]:
This level produces mild effects, with some visual enhancement like brighter or more vibrant colors and sometimes an elevated mood. Some short term memory anomalies. Left/right brain communication changes causing music to sound 'wider'.
[6 to 12mg PCBE]:
Bright colors, and visuals (ie. things start to move and breathe) some 2-dimensional patterns become apparent upon shutting eyes. Confused or reminiscent thoughts. The natural brain filter (salience network) begins to deactivate, thoughts may be distracted, creativity may feel enhanced, fixation on objects within your view or parts of your body can happen (for example staring at your hand or a flower or tree). The salience network or midcingulo-insular network or ventral attention network, is a group of regions in your brain that work together to filter out unimportant information and decide what deserves your attention.
[12 to 18mg PCBE]:
Very obvious visuals, everything looking curved and/or warped patterns and kaleidoscopes seen on walls, faces, etc. Some mild hallucinations such as rivers flowing in wood grained or 'mother of pearl' surfaces. Closed eye hallucinations become 3 dimensional. Open eyed visuals everywhere with no effort. There could be some confusing of the senses (ie. seeing sounds as colors etc.) Time distortions and `moments of eternity`. Movement at times becomes extremely difficult (too much effort required).
[18 to 30mg PCBE]:
Strong hallucinations, objects morphing into other objects. The brain’s default mode network becomes less active or inactive resulting in loss of ego or splitting of the ego. Things may start talking to you, or you find that you are feeling contradictory things simultaneously. Some loss of reality. Time becomes meaningless. Out of body experiences and perceived esp type phenomena are possible. Different parts of the brain become “hyper-connected” resulting in full blending of the senses (synesthesia). You may experience colors when listening to music, see shapes when smelling certain scents, or perceive tastes when looking at words.
[30 to 40mg PCBE]:
Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measurable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived, ceases to exist. You may experience momentary periods of absolute peace and calm while the ego is suppressed and your brain is unencumbered by its usual worries or passions.
Someone asked in the community chat - can you use oxygen absorbers instead of argon? Argon is superior as it completely blocks all oxygen from touching your mushroom powder, it works instantly, and no matter how many times you open the jar, as long as you keep it upright, the argon will stay in the jar protecting your powder (be careful to always keep the jar upright). An oxygen absorber can take many days if not weeks to absorb all the oxygen in the jar, and every time you open the jar new oxygen comes in. Sometimes oxygen absorbers are unreliable as well, they may expire and unless you have a way of testing them, you won't know they are depleted. Also oxygen absorbers contain water which could potentially contribute to the dephosphorylation of psilocybin, a study by Altitude Consulting found that oxygen absorbers were a net negative to mushroom storage.
Speaking of the community chat, if you haven't seen this feature yet, I HIGHLY recommend you check it out! It is now working on BOTH the app and the website versions of patreon, the icon looks like this:
It has been very active, our community has an awesome, helpful vibe and a positive spirit. You can often get questions answered there faster than I can respond via private message, and most of the advice and answers I've seen have been excellent. I chime in there too as much as I can. The chat also makes it very easy to share pictures. Some excellent discussions have been happening, as well as inspirational pictures and messages. I will be highlighting some of these community topics and adding commentary in a future post here.
For anyone wondering why the minor alkaloids rise over time in storage, it is similar to how psilocin rises as psilocybin deteriorates, essentially, as the major alkaloids are damaged, they can turn into other molecules including the minor alkaloids that were in the pathway of biosynthesis:
(Source: Enzymatic Synthesis of Psilocybin Janis Fricke, Felix Blei, Dirk Hoffmeister)
Someone also asked about storing at room temp vs. fridge or freezer. In general, storing things in a fridge or freezer tends to be beneficial, but according to one published paper I know of, that is not the case with psychedelic mushrooms. I would like to further research this subject myself and do not fully trust these results, but here is the reference: Gotvaldová K, Hájková K, Borovička J, Jurok R, Cihlářová P, Kuchař M. Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis. Drug Test Anal. 2021 Feb;13(2):439-446. doi: 10.1002/dta.2950. Epub 2020 Nov 4. PMID: 33119971.
Several people asked about using carbon dioxide (CO2) instead of argon, I talk about that in the above video around the 3 minute mark. I would love to do further testing with CO2 to see how it compares, but in general argon is superior for several reasons, but mainly because it is less reactive than CO2 and also heavier which might be a very small advantage in displacing the oxygen.
Several people asked about vacuum sealing as an alternative. Vacuum sealing is probably a decent choice, this is one more option that should be tested scientifically, but the common problems with vacuum sealing solutions are that they can sometimes lose vacuum over time and you may not even realize it, also they don't completely remove all gas (i.e. never a "perfect vacuum"). It seems much simpler and fool proof to just squirt a little argon over your powder - this completely and instantly blocks all air from touching your mushroom powder. That said, there are some inexpensive mason jar vacuum sealers out there that have excellent reviews and would possibly work well.
Someone asked about using desiccants (silica gel packets). They may not be necessary, another one of the nice benefits of using argon. Argon is a noble gas with a relatively high atomic mass (around 40) for a single atom. Water vapor is a molecule (H2O) with a lower molar mass (around 18). So even though it contains 3 atoms, the water vapor molecule is lighter than a single argon atom. This makes argon denser than water vapor under the same conditions of temperature and pressure which means the water vapor is forced away from your mushroom material by the argon. If you were not using an inert gas, desiccant would likely be beneficial. If your mushrooms were not fully cracker dry the desiccant could also be beneficial, we need more scientific data on using desiccant with and without inert gasses.
Someone asked about putting them into capsules first before long term storage. This is still a question in need of scientific research. I can see pre-encapsulating as possibly being good or bad. You will always "lock in" a little bit of air in the capsule because it's impossible to completely fill them, so that is a possible negative. HOWEVER with capsules you are really PACKING that powder down, pushing out all air from the powder in the process, that should in theory be a plus for preservation. My guess is that putting them into capsules for storage might be net beneficial but I have not seen any data on this yet.
Someone asked about consistency when it comes to potency levels. Potency variability is still something that needs further research. I was happy to see the scientific evidence that powdered mushroom material stores better, as that means people storing it that way will automatically get good homogenization which should contribute towards reducing potency variation at least within that single stored batch. There are certain factors that people just need to be aware of if they are aiming for consistency, for example harvesting too late can reduce potency, letting them sit around before dehydrating can reduce potency, not properly drying or drying for too long or too short of a time impacts potency (set alarms for yourself and check on the progress). I believe once a person learns all of the best practices and perfectly repeats everything including same substrate ingredients, same harvest timing and proper dehydration, the potency levels should be fairly consistent especially in a big homogenized batch.
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Links to all of my TEKs, Videos, Trip music, and frequently asked questions with answers can be found here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/22774475 (everything is made available for FREE, I do not use pay walls, support the work only if you feel like you've benefited from it and you are able to do so).
Comments
Wazatron
Regarding the use of argon for storage; I see in the post that opening / closing multiple times doesn't harm anything provided you keep the jar upright. But what about removing or adding material? For example, if you are storing powdered material in a jar with argon, can you spoon out material for use without worry of disturbing the argon or needing to blast in a little more? Or conversely, if you powdered more material and want to add it to the jar, would you need to blast a bit more argon in to be safe?
GordoTEK
Absolutely, it is probably as good as argon.
GordoTEK
Someone also asked about storing at room temp vs. fridge or freezer. In general, storing things in a fridge or freezer tends to be beneficial, but according to one published paper I know of, that is not the case with psychedelic mushrooms. I would like to further research this subject myself and do not fully trust these results, but here is the reference: Gotvaldová K, Hájková K, Borovička J, Jurok R, Cihlářová P, Kuchař M. Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis. Drug Test Anal. 2021 Feb;13(2):439-446. doi: 10.1002/dta.2950. Epub 2020 Nov 4. PMID: 33119971. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33119971/ Jordan Jacobs of Tryplabs has mentioned excellent results with samples stored in a freezer. Perhaps there is only damage to alkaloids if the sample is not fully dried first before going into the freezer?
Collective Works
Hey @GordoTEK ! I sent you a DM or I think some kind of message or mail I’m not sure I suck at this app! I was just thanking you for everything and requesting spore prints for nats and ttbvi. Love you Gordo, you really are the best! 🖤
Jonathan Copeland
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Kitchen Mycology
Great simple method! The Heatgun trick is awesome. BTW, if you have an Oster brand blender, the small "Better than Bullion" jars fit right on the blade cup/adapter. I think the lid will also seal with the Heat Gun with these jars? 🍄❤️
Curmudgeon76
Love the emphasis on the final word...."safe"!
Thomas Filion
Stops air movement. So whatever air they get is what it will ever have. Lose powder or shrooms will come in contact with more atmosphere .
TheDabbMan
I store mine in the freezer, and was told that could be bad, my thought is there's no water in them and even then the only thing it would do is damage the cell walls and it makes it easier to grind in lemon tek but I wanted to know what the master thinks.
Mr. Jeremy
Would you say CO2 is better than not adding anything into a jar?
GordoTEK
Yes this is still a question in need of scientific evidence. I can see pre-encapsulating as possibly being good or bad. As you note, you will always "lock in" a little bit of air in the capsule because it's impossible to completely fill them, so that is a possible negative. HOWEVER with capsules you are really PACKING that powder down, pushing out all air from the powder in the process, that should in theory be a plus for preservation. My guess is that putting them into capsules for storage might be net beneficial but I have not seen any data on that yet.
Albert
@GordoTek Love the equation. And based on the above, I will store my harvests as powder. Question: To slow potency decline, do you think there would be a further advantage (and/or harm) in putting the powdered mushrooms in capsules, storing them in a container, adding argon, and then sealing them? One issue could be that when placing them in capsules, you also encapsulate the surrounding oxygen in the air. My interest in capsules is to simplify dosing for any journey.
liuk
The best source of info🙏🏻 Already texted for the spores!💪🏼
Mountain Myco
Awesome info as usual Gordo! Thank you.
Mountain Myco
That's probably old school advice before all the testing. Even he can be wrong.
Pierre Robert
Nice, I can stop worrying!
GordoTEK
I have not tested any extracts yet. An alternative though, is to take them in capsules, no taste that way, and if you use a high potency cultivar (like TTBVI) you only need a tiny amount (as in the calculation from this post, 1, 2, or at most 3 capsules ('00' size). But I do understand the advantages of lemon TEK and not consuming the solids at all. I seriously doubt that it would store very well, probably best to just make it the same day you want to consume it.
GordoTEK
Yes its a misconception, only very high heat damages these alkaloids, this has been put to the test with HPLC, up to about 180F doesn't seem to damage them. Also the jar isn't even getting all that hot, you can see in the vid I am able to touch it with my bare hands, so less than 120F.
GordoTEK
I've run out of places to put cacti in my house, haha.
GordoTEK
Its another one that needs further research, I have not tested extracts yet.
SeamonkeyMusic
Questions from the wife: How about storing lemon tek? Any data on how that breaks down over time? Would it be worth it to soak a bunch of blended grams in lemon juice and save as a tincture? She absolutely HATES the smell and taste (and actually won't eat reg shrooms either, like, at all), so we've been trying to muse on that because she insists on lemon tek so her stomach won't get as upset since the lemon converts for you. Thanks!
A.Vision
I’ve been interested in if there’s any chance to store Lemon Tekked Mushrooms (my idea was to put powder into lemon, dehydrate it again, then store as is with argon or even to mix it with honey and store). The fact is - I can do it but am not able to test this :) If anyone done this before - it would be so much interesting to read if the result has been positive
Benjamin
Just subscribed to your channel. Thanks for helping make science more easily accessible and digestible. Also, I love the trichocereus 🌵 backdrop.
Pierre Robert
One question: I would’ve guessed that heat would be especially detrimental to alkaloids. Is that a misconception, you reckon? If so, are we going with the theory that it’s minimal and worth the trade off to get a seal with the heat gun?
GordoTEK
It is interesting that the psilocybin levels didn't change much from month 4 to month 7 although that appears to be somewhat consistent with some other data I have seen showing a rapid initial drop of psilocybin followed by a plateau or slow decline. For example with: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33119971/ In the first 2 months, more than 50% of the psilocybin was destroyed, and yet it took another 13 months just to get an additional 30% decline from there.
GordoTEK
The vacuum sealed capsules might be fine as is, not sure how much help adding argon would be. Would love to see some scientific data on this.
GordoTEK
As for freezing, there is at least some evidence that freezing makes things worse, not better. I'd still like to see independent confirmation on this, but these researchers did directly compare room temp, freezer, and refrigerator storage and found that room temp was best (also dark location best): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33119971/
GordoTEK
Yea so far I haven't seen any method scientifically shown to prevent the dephosphorylation of psilocybin but I'd like to see more research on that. The good news though is that psilocin seems to be more stable than we were led to believe, and overall potency decline can be minimized and very slow with the recommendations mentioned.
GordoTEK
I'd still like to see independent confirmation on this, but these researchers did directly compare room temp, freezer, and refrigerator storage and found that room temp was best (also dark location best): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33119971/
G0301354 C
Hmm, I suspect the initial content for this batch is higher than what is stated. PCB is not lower than 4 month's result.
Mr.Transistor
Interesting I’ve been vacuum sealing my capsules in a jar. As I know that the vacuum isn’t perfect I’m going to try adding argon, letting it settle, then putting the vacuum sealer on it. I realize that it will pull most of the argon out but I’m hoping that the residual content will then be mostly argon. Now if I can just get them to fruit like yours.
John Haydukovich
Does that deteriorate
John Haydukovich
And what happens with alcohol based extraction Where you reduce and leave everything in alcohol in refrigerator
James
Thanks Gordo! Trying to make sense of massive PCB drop, this is just a natural breaking down of psilocybin to psilocin? Nothing can prevent this, not even freezing slows this down? 😕 I guess Lemon-tek achieves this with citric acid, so could this part of the aging actually be considered a benefit? 🤷♂️ FWIW - I landed on a very odd storage tek... dried, powdered, made into chocolate, frozen 🍄🍫❄ While I know this probably delays onset, I just don't enjoy the endless 'twig-like' chewing... rather grab a couple squares of chocolate from the freezer 😋 If anyone's interested, I found this recipe to be super simple and been using it for years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5wt7-NO4AM
Thomas Filion
I had done a lot of capsules ahead of time and had leftover powder in separate bag. 2 years caps worked fine, but the loose powder was only in a sandwich bag and had lost it's umph.
DRS
I thought my whole, fruit cracker dry, vacuum sealed with dissaicant cubes from 18 months ago were pretty good, and they probably are OK, but I'm now sold on powdered with argon. Especially the water vapor, if any layering above. I've got a lifetime supply (probably not all that long in my case) that will be getting powdered soon. Had to put the cake pans in the fridge for my upcoming Philly adventure!
Ben Dowell
I remember McKenna saying to store mushrooms in an air tight bag and store in the freezer.
GordoTEK
I would like to do a comparison test over time with capsules vs just powder, it would be interesting to know... I have no idea which method is better, I can see arguments for it being better or worse 😂 packing it tightly could be an advantage to capsules, but you are also sealing in a small air pocket as it is impossible to fully fill a capsule and there is no way for the argon to get in there, the argon might not do anything in the case of capsules but that is also unknown, maybe air can penetrate a capsule to some extent.
GordoTEK
No, the argon is never used up or destroyed, you just have to be careful about keeping the jar upright and not accidentally scooping away the argon. If you slowly took a heaping spoonful of mushroom powder out of the jar without tipping the jar over too much, you will not remove any of the argon.
GordoTEK
So far I haven't been impressed by the HPLC results on freeze drying, it seems that it offers no advantage of regular air dehydration, one study even showed it was significantly worse, but I don't really believe that either. Still, based on the only scientific evidence I've seen so far, freeze drying at best will only be about as good as regular dehydration in terms of alkaloid preservation. More research must be done.
KaboomFox
Any research on freeze drying vs dehydrating? Does putting in capsules first impact storage?
GordoTEK
Blue Honey would be another interesting thing to research.
GordoTEK
Its definitely an open question as to what impact putting them first into capsules has. Technically each capsule will also always have a small pocket of air inside of it no matter how hard to try to pack it full. That could be a negative, however you are also packing down the powder, which in theory could be a positive, really driving out any air gaps. Capsules could potentially be a long term storage improvement and maybe no argon is even needed but only a rigorous scientific test would be able to determine that.
eTanium
Have you thought about doing some 'Blue Honey' as well? Not as technical your deep dive efforts here, but one that the community may find interesting.
eTanium
Theoretically, if the powdered fruits are put into pills/capsules, adding argon into the container their stored in will not have great effect. I don't think that the capsules break down very much in open atmosphere?
GordoTEK
It is not neccesary, again one of the nice benefits of using argon is that argon is denser than water vapor. Argon is a noble gas with a relatively high atomic mass (around 40) for a single atom. Water vapor is a molecule (H2O) with a lower molar mass (around 18). So even though it contains 3 atoms, water vapor is lighter than a single argon atom. This makes argon denser than water vapor under the same conditions of temperature and pressure which means the water vapor is forced away from your mushroom material by the argon.
GordoTEK
Those products have great reviews (here is a US one: https://amzn.to/3Kj7s61 ) and I think it might work fine, but I don't know of anyone who has done a proper scientific study on it yet. The downside is that they will never expel all gas (not a perfect vacuum) and they containers could potentially lose vacuum over time as well.
Gorgonzola
Thx! 👍
GordoTEK
I'd like to see that comparison study as well!
GordoTEK
Yes, its perfect! The Argon is heavier than CO2 so it will be the only gas touching your mushroom material.
Pierre Robert
Next variables: temp, then light
eTanium
Question regarding the combination of silica gel packets and the argon? Is there any benefit to using both, or is the silica not necessary due to the argon?
JPF
Hi Gordo, have you tried "staking" with these (quite low cost) mason jar vacuum sealers?? https://www.amazon.es/dp/B0CQM7Z3M9?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details .... this is as of today, my "low-tech" quite-OK conservation TEK ....
YukonKornelius
Nice! I've been vacuum sealing my fungi for quite some time now but I'll give this a go as well. I would be curious to see some test results from a vacuum sealed bag sample vs a sample from this particular method to see if they would be comparable. Thanks, Gordo!
Gorgonzola
Thx, very helpful, especially for the grower who has so much yield that he doesn't know what to do with it 😁. Where I live we get bottles with 14% Co2, 86% Argon. Would that work too?
mike
Thanks for the reply. I may be splitting hairs with these thoughts, but you know how curiosity is…😉 Perhaps instead of vacuum-sealing, I can introduce argon (which I have). My assumption is that I will need to use more than if I were applying it to powder. As powder needs only a layer on top and capsules leave lots of air gaps between the individual caps that will need to be displaced. Also, now wondering if the capsules themselves offer any more protection than loose powdered form. 🤔 If I have argon in jar and periodically pull out “servings,” will I have to replenish the argon? Thanks.
GordoTEK
Nothing wrong with storing in capsules, in fact it could even be better as the powder gets packed in tightly. I would like to do a comparison test over time with capsules vs just powder, it would be interesting to know... As for vacuum sealing is probably a decent choice, this is one more option that should be tested scientifically, but the common problems with vacuum sealing solutions are that they can sometimes lose vacuum over time and you may not even realize it, also they don't completely remove all gas (i.e. never a "perfect vacuum").
GordoTEK
Vacuum sealing is probably a decent choice, this is one more option that should be tested scientifically, but the common problems with vacuum sealing solutions are that they can sometimes lose vacuum over time and you may not even realize it, also they don't completely remove all gas (i.e. never a "perfect vacuum"). It seems much simpler and fool proof to just squirt a little argon over your powder - this completely and instantly blocks all air from touching your mushroom powder.
mike
Thanks Gordo for your diligent work and, most importantly, your generosity in sharing with us. I have my capsules stored in mason jars, but use a vacuum sealer that pumps out the oxygen from the jars locking in the lid very much like what’s seen with the heat gun. I see the results with powder, what does the community think about storage of capsules within a vacuum-sealed jar? Are there any considerations to take into account when storing in capsules vs. powder?
Justin Soltysik
Thank you for the reply!
Gary
Is there a reason to not vacuumed seal your powder? Seems better than jars.
GordoTEK
In the best case, the monthly loss of potency will be a little over 1%, so in theory you could store it for a whole year and it will still be 86% as potent as the day you harvested it (with the big assumption that the potency decline remains linear which has yet to be determined). In the worst case of the 4 scenarios I put to the test, you will still be at 80% original potency after one year (again assuming the decline is linear).
KatL8e
I adore the care, time, time, attention to detail, science and existing literature you put into this experiment. I also love that you provided the practical application of your observations. Thank you! Amazing work and valuable contribution to our collective understanding.
Justin Soltysik
This is very cool! The chart is a bit confusing to me. How long do you suppose you can store with this technique without substantial quality loss?
GordoTEK
True, I talk about CO2 in the video at 3:02, it is fine to use it, but argon does have a couple small advantages (it is heavier and less reactive than CO2). CO2 can react with water to form carbonic acid for example. But still it would be nice to actually compare them head to head in a scientifically controlled way.
David Borunský
Thank you sir! I appreciate it.
GordoTEK
I would like to further research this subject myself, but there is some published data on the subject which can be found here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33119971/ Gotvaldová K, Hájková K, Borovička J, Jurok R, Cihlářová P, Kuchař M. Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of the psychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis. Drug Test Anal. 2021 Feb;13(2):439-446. doi: 10.1002/dta.2950. Epub 2020 Nov 4. PMID: 33119971.
David Borunský
Does freezer damage alkaloids? Why is it ideal to be stored in a room temperature?
Aiuno
It’s worth mentioning that dry ice -> CO2 is a cheap and accessible alternative to Argon gas. CO2 is 1.5 times heavier than air, and will settle to the lowest point, preventing oxidation of powdered substances.
Jay Hanks
Extremely Appreciated!!
Chipy1Kanoby
Thank you kindly my friend 🙏 namaste
Doc_Boyd
Thanks for this great and detailed explanation.
