This is Suze
patreon
Puritanical Patreon?
🕑 Added 2024-09-08 17:31:59 +0000 UTCTell me what you think...because I have been wondering why 18+artists don't get the same treatment as all other creators on Patreon. Firstly we are not entitled to any traffic...so I can only get patrons from my promotions, which I don't feel like doing anymore, and hence we have this little cult like group of hardcore patrons who come and go each month. Second I have to pay $100 a year for vimeo, where non 18+ content creators don't have to even use vimeo anymore.
So, I decided to share my thoughts with the team @patreon.....
Aug 22, 2024, 4:35 AM PDT
Hi John,
Well...there is one thing that bugs me a bit...
I chose to have an 18+ account when I signed up in 2018, to have the freedom to express myself in a non PG way if I choose to. As an artist, to be unlimited and uncensored, in a way I cannot be on my free channel Youtube.
However, I don't love the fact that as a creator there is zero traffic because of that choice (and I have a small following of very loyal fans and don't feel like advertising) so traffic would have been really useful to keep numbers up. I've managed quite well in the early years with traffic driven from my YouTube vlogs. $2500 a month in those good times, is not that bad considering my channel is hidden, but as a creator who has consistently created for 6 years, I do feel I deserve to do much better with my earnings.
I feel that America needs to come out of the dark age and stop seeing nudity (our natural self without a costume) as pornography or sexualising the body in its natural form. When we do this we are saying that our natural self is a sin, and really that's a perversion of the truth.
Plus Amanda Palmer has a public channel despite her freedom of expression in this way (I appreciate she brings in more money than all the creators put together) but it feels like a one rule for one, and one rule for another.
I understand your ruling on this when content is of a sexual nature, but please don't sexualise nudity. When you do this, it makes what should be our most authentic self, something that's shady and "sinful" for want of a better word. I feel like Patreon brands itself as "freedom of expression" but because of these puritanical rulings, it doesn't quite achieve this. Even words like "adult content" don't make sense, because conversations on mental health are "adult content" e.g. they're not made for kids, but my adult self isn't always a sexualised adult! I know your argument is to keep kids "safe" but then every time someone signs up for a creator it should say "over 18" unless it's made specifically for kids. I don't imagine that many kids are signing up to Patreon, unless for guitar lessons etc and they shouldn't have access to credit cards if so.
I would prefer it if my content was searchable, but that in signing up it specifically expresses that it contains content not made for kids. It feels rather punishing to be hidden. Plus, I have been one of the earlier creators and i'm not entitled to uploading my videos for free, when other creators no longer have to pay for vimeo, that also feels like as an 18+ creator I'm not rewarded for my hard work and contribution like other creators, I have to hide in the shadows like i don't exist.
I'd appreciate your thoughts on the subject.
Suze
And THIS was John's reply:
John (Patreon)
Aug 22, 2024, 11:13 AM PDT
Hi Suze,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and concerns with us. We understand your frustration and appreciate your perspective on the visibility of 18+ content. Patreon is committed to providing a platform for all creators while also ensuring a safe and respectful environment for our community.
Regarding the visibility of your content, we understand the importance of traffic for creators. While the 18+ categorization may limit some visibility, it's important to note that this is in place to ensure that content is appropriately accessed by those who are of age.
As for video uploads, we're continually working on improving our features and services. We understand the importance of video content for creators like you, and we're exploring ways to make this process more accessible for all creators, including those with 18+ content.
Your feedback is invaluable to us, and I'll be sure to pass it along to our product team. We're always looking for ways to improve and better serve our creators, and your input helps us do just that.
Please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any more questions or concerns. We're here to support you.
All the best,
John
I was pretty disappointed with his reply and so I wrote this in response:
This is Suze <suze@thisissuze.com>
19:18 (8 minutes ago)
to Support
Thanks for replying, John, even if your response seemed impersonal and bot like and seemed to only consolidate my thoughts that Patreon doesn't really give much thought to artists on the 18+ section.
John didn't even reply to my paragraph on Amanda Palmer for example....where I said
"Plus Amanda Palmer has a public channel despite her freedom of expression in this way (I appreciate she brings in more money than all the creators put together) but it feels like a one rule for one, and one rule for another."
DO YOU AGREE WITH ME?
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?
I WANT THEM IN GREAT BIG TECHNICOLOUR DETAIL!!!! ESPECIALLY YOU @RAMON, MY NUMBER ONE ART CRITIC!
ANSWERS ON A POSTCARD! (or just like here in the comments ;-)
Suze ;-)
Comments
Nicholas Metropolis
The problem is then that your Vimeo account is a single point of failure. If it goes, all of your content goes. So you have to keep it. Also, one possible suggestion for you to be able to be promoted by Patreon could be to establish a second account, that would be free of anything 18+ and then direct people from there to here.
This Is Suze
no! that would be thousands of gbs....it's 6 years of content...i can't even face the idea of downloading all that!!!
Nicholas Metropolis
Just a question. Do you have an offline backup of your stuff that's on Vimeo?
Neal Morofsky
Suze as we have spoke numerous times onlyfans is not necessarily porn as you set what you want to post. As far as the old content you and still support the video account temporarily and slowly download it and put it up on a of or any other platform. Again as always it's your decision to do as you please. I'm only making a suggestion.
This Is Suze
read my message to neal above! yes i've tried of, better in many ways but also i have a feeling in the contract they own your content, hmmm,
This Is Suze
I have been on only fans in the past, the tricky thing is, i have 6 years of content on my vimeo library that i have to pay to store there, i'm only just getting paid enough to continue on patreon, let alone all the work to download my library and move it to only fans, and the kind of people that go to only fans can be a bit more aggressive, because they're looking for p0rn, and all i get is messages asking for that content, which as you know I don't make. plus it was never my intention to be a NSFW creator. But yes, OF is a better platform, you get paid quicker, don't have to pay for vimeo, they have ppv, and yes you can advertise, but i'm not looking to advertise myself as nsfw I just wanted the option of benefiting from passing traffic.
ShadowCalb
Have you tried Fansly or Onlyfans? They don't require a paid subscription to upload videos, and your channel wouldn't be suppressed there.
Neal Morofsky
Suze, I had meant ed years ago to move to onlyfans. I am not 100% sure how the platform works but just from look a YouTube and tiktok many people promote onlyfans
Welsh Stu
I think it's quite unfair to discriminate against someone for the content they create, and force them into paying higher fees in order to keep their membership active, and making them jump through even more hoops because patreon class their work as being 18+. Whenever someone takes the time and effort to create media for their followers is that not classed as digital art? I mean sculptures of nudes in a museum don't come with a warning that there may be nude content behind the next set of doors and if you want to see it then the artist has to pay the extra for you to see their work! We all arive in this world naked as nature intended, so why is it the older you get the greater the stigma attached to showing the nude form becomes? I think it's this moral high ground that patreon is taking in "protecting" people instead of educating them and allowing them to make their own free decision over what they class as 18+, I mean I have seen films from when I was younger that were pg rated that had nudity in them but heck as a 12 year old it was OK to watch then, but now everyone needs to be nannyed and spoon fed only the content that others think is appropriate. I also think that patreon has sold itself out with regards to Amanda palmer, and turned a blind eye as they are too busy counting the money coming in from the commission from her subscribers, and without that money John won't have has multicolored pixilated letter p in all his emails.
